All living things are sentient. Even the cockroaches that infest my eating/computer area. They’re pretty competent at avoiding death at my hands.
Deep down, don’t we all know this — that any living creature feels pain, etc?
I’ve shied away from red meat, drifted toward poultry, seafood, even tofu. Yes, I suppose even soybeans suffer when they’re harvested, smushed, desiccated, cooked.
But haven’t we made a decision that, ultimately, we’re entitled to eat them, just as they’re entitled to eat one another? Isn’t it a matter of survival, of the lesser evil? Is it immoral for tigers to eat cattle — and humans?
We’ve made a decision. — accept the lesser of evils. Let’s live with it. I love seafood.
TVP makes a pretty good substitute for beef. Granulated, it has s similar texture, although doesn’t have any myoglobin obviously so doesn’t have the same flavor where it is significant, and doesn’t bind and congel when cooked.
Works well in soup, stews, meatloaf (50/50) with hamburger, and is perfect in chili and satisfies protein requirements and cravings.
It also has a much better environmental footprint.
Ss, animals have emotions? And? Their “emotions” don’t prevent these creatures from eating each other, so LET’S EAT! Here is the truth: for us to live, living things must die. That is just nature. We kill and eat living things, or we die! Plants, animals – whatever. People need to stop pretending to be angels when we’re all just feeders and breeders.
“Pain,” and the “pain response,” are vital operating functions for all animals. It is the “program” which tells that living thing to avoid situations which could result in death or severe injury. Even bacteria (at a much simpler level) move away from injurious conditions and towards friendlier situations.
Pain is not “moral” or “spiritual” or even “intellectual.” It is simply the combination of (a) a detection mechanism identifying damsge (or imminent damage) and a programmed response saying “stop the damage from occurring.”
The ability to ignore pain, or to bear it and keep going… THAT is “moral” or “spiritual” or perhaps just “intellectual.” Experiencing pain? Not do much.
And “feeling emotions?” We humans struggle to understand the emotions of other humans. Hell, we struggle to understand our OWN emotions sometimes. So, I question how these “researchers” can claim to understand the “emotions” of things do far removed from us.
I suspect that they are falsely conflating “basic functional programming” with “emotional responses.” If a lobster experiences brief pain, and responds physically to that pain, when dropped into a boiling pot… this is not an “emotional response.”
Simple life forms, like lobsters, certainly experience pain, and instinctively respond to pain, but do not experience EMOTIONS as we think of them… at all.
Slughtly higher life forms, like chickens, have slightly more advanced brains, and can experience very rudimentary emotions… anger, jealosy, etc. But they obviously cannot “think” or reason or understand, so their emotions are far, far less significant than human emotions.
Higher animals… say, horses, cows, dogs,
cats and so on… have more advanced brains, greater cognitive capabilities, and emotions closer to our own.
And certain very high animals… elephants, dolphins, chimpanzees, etc… approach our own cognitive levels, and have emotions almost identical to our own as well.
I personally think that the closer an animal is to our own level, the more retiscent we should be about eating it. And those we do, we should treat as respectfully and kindly as we can in the process… minimizing suffering, both physical and, yes, psychological.
But we should not pretend that the nature of life is NOT to eat other life. We are omnivores… we eat both plant and animal life to perpetuate our own life. We need to eat both. Vegetarian or “vegan” diets are unhealthy and unnatural for humans. Without artificial supplements, people become ill from subsisting on such a diet.
We are not apart from nature. We’re part of it… just like wolves, sharks, and so forth. And predation is part of our nature.
So since pretty much everything we et has a brain and feels pain we better not eat it! Are you sure vegetables dont feel pain? Science better check that out! What will they waste money studying next?
Who says science is an objective search for truth? The new scientific method is to wet one’s finger, stick it in the air and see which way the woke wind blows.
They would eat you ,without pause.
All living things are sentient. Even the cockroaches that infest my eating/computer area. They’re pretty competent at avoiding death at my hands.
Deep down, don’t we all know this — that any living creature feels pain, etc?
I’ve shied away from red meat, drifted toward poultry, seafood, even tofu. Yes, I suppose even soybeans suffer when they’re harvested, smushed, desiccated, cooked.
But haven’t we made a decision that, ultimately, we’re entitled to eat them, just as they’re entitled to eat one another? Isn’t it a matter of survival, of the lesser evil? Is it immoral for tigers to eat cattle — and humans?
We’ve made a decision. — accept the lesser of evils. Let’s live with it. I love seafood.
TVP makes a pretty good substitute for beef. Granulated, it has s similar texture, although doesn’t have any myoglobin obviously so doesn’t have the same flavor where it is significant, and doesn’t bind and congel when cooked.
Works well in soup, stews, meatloaf (50/50) with hamburger, and is perfect in chili and satisfies protein requirements and cravings.
It also has a much better environmental footprint.
Makes me hungry for Sushi!
Ss, animals have emotions? And? Their “emotions” don’t prevent these creatures from eating each other, so LET’S EAT! Here is the truth: for us to live, living things must die. That is just nature. We kill and eat living things, or we die! Plants, animals – whatever. People need to stop pretending to be angels when we’re all just feeders and breeders.
“Pain,” and the “pain response,” are vital operating functions for all animals. It is the “program” which tells that living thing to avoid situations which could result in death or severe injury. Even bacteria (at a much simpler level) move away from injurious conditions and towards friendlier situations.
Pain is not “moral” or “spiritual” or even “intellectual.” It is simply the combination of (a) a detection mechanism identifying damsge (or imminent damage) and a programmed response saying “stop the damage from occurring.”
The ability to ignore pain, or to bear it and keep going… THAT is “moral” or “spiritual” or perhaps just “intellectual.” Experiencing pain? Not do much.
And “feeling emotions?” We humans struggle to understand the emotions of other humans. Hell, we struggle to understand our OWN emotions sometimes. So, I question how these “researchers” can claim to understand the “emotions” of things do far removed from us.
I suspect that they are falsely conflating “basic functional programming” with “emotional responses.” If a lobster experiences brief pain, and responds physically to that pain, when dropped into a boiling pot… this is not an “emotional response.”
Simple life forms, like lobsters, certainly experience pain, and instinctively respond to pain, but do not experience EMOTIONS as we think of them… at all.
Slughtly higher life forms, like chickens, have slightly more advanced brains, and can experience very rudimentary emotions… anger, jealosy, etc. But they obviously cannot “think” or reason or understand, so their emotions are far, far less significant than human emotions.
Higher animals… say, horses, cows, dogs,
cats and so on… have more advanced brains, greater cognitive capabilities, and emotions closer to our own.
And certain very high animals… elephants, dolphins, chimpanzees, etc… approach our own cognitive levels, and have emotions almost identical to our own as well.
I personally think that the closer an animal is to our own level, the more retiscent we should be about eating it. And those we do, we should treat as respectfully and kindly as we can in the process… minimizing suffering, both physical and, yes, psychological.
But we should not pretend that the nature of life is NOT to eat other life. We are omnivores… we eat both plant and animal life to perpetuate our own life. We need to eat both. Vegetarian or “vegan” diets are unhealthy and unnatural for humans. Without artificial supplements, people become ill from subsisting on such a diet.
We are not apart from nature. We’re part of it… just like wolves, sharks, and so forth. And predation is part of our nature.
So since pretty much everything we et has a brain and feels pain we better not eat it! Are you sure vegetables dont feel pain? Science better check that out! What will they waste money studying next?
Who says science is an objective search for truth? The new scientific method is to wet one’s finger, stick it in the air and see which way the woke wind blows.