Americans unsure about God are fast-growing force in politics – and typically even more politically active than White evangelicals

By Ryan Burge, Eastern Illinois Universityvia The Conversation

It’s hard to remember now, given the attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential election, but the day after votes were cast, one theme stood out: voter turnout.

Every state in the nation saw higher turnout in 2020 than 2016, according to an analysis from the Pew Research Center. Overall, there were more than 158 million votes cast, according to the Federal Election Commissionnearly 22 million more than just four years prior.

Turnout will likely play an outsize role in the 2022 midterms, too, as voters determine what political party will have control of the U.S. House of Representatives and the Senate in January 2023. As a political scientist who studies the intersection of religion and politics, I am interested in which groups may have a strong impact on the balance of power. And if the data is any guide, there are two key communities political analysts often overlook: atheists and agnostics.

Partisan divides

In 2008, almost 8% of the entire U.S. population claimed to be atheist or agnostic, according to my analysis of data from the Cooperative Election Study, or CES – an annual survey coordinated by a team at Harvard University. Atheists believe that there is no higher power in the universe, while agnostics contend that a higher power may exist but it’s impossible to know for certain.

By 2021, that share had risen to just about 12%. But atheists and agnostics are often left-leaning in their political persuasion, and their rapid ascendance in the American religious landscape is proving much more consequential to the Democratic Party than the GOP.

The percentage of Americans who identify as atheist or agnostic is climbing – but far faster among Democrats than Republicans

Just 4% of people who align with the Republican Party say that they are atheist or agnostic. That same figure was 3% when Barack Obama won the White House in 2008.

However, according to my analysis of the CES data, 1 in 5 Democrats today are atheist or agnostic, an increase of eight percentage points from 2008.

Getting to the ballot box

Just because these groups have increased as a percentage of the overall population does not necessarily mean their growth will translate to political wins during the 2022 midterms. While political scientists have struggled with how to measure voter turnout through survey data, it’s possible to use other measures to infer just how politically active atheists and agnostics are – and there’s strong evidence that they will make their presence felt on Election Day.

Atheists and agnostics are more politically engaged than white evangelicals

The CES asks respondents if they have engaged in a number of political activities over the prior 12 months. Secular Americans’ political engagement comes into sharper focus when their behavior is compared with that of another group, one that is often considered very politically active: White evangelicals.

Over the past 40 years, the religious right has won many victories by organizing a loose coalition of theologically and politically conservative faith groups to vote, advocate and agitate. Overturning the Roe v. Wade decision, for example – which the Supreme Court did in June 2022 – was a long-cherished goal of the movement, resulting in several states’ banning abortion in nearly all circumstances.

In 2020, 8% of white evangelicals attended a political meeting such as school board or city council, according to the CES. Yet the percentage is even higher for atheists – 11% – and agnostics – 10%. There was also a small difference in the data about putting up a political yard sign or bumper sticker. Among atheists, 27% had done so, compared with 21% of white evangelicals.

However, when it comes to political protests, there’s no doubt that secular Americans are more politically engaged. In 2020, 18% of atheists and 16% of agnostics said that they had gone to a march or rally about a political issue, versus just 5% of white evangelicals, based on CES data. When it comes to donations, the gulf is even wider. In 2020, half of all atheists made a political donation, along with 43% of agnostics. In comparison, only about a quarter of white evangelicals made a political donation to a candidate or party.

Speaking up – and being heard

Democratic candidates have shown increasing awareness that they are becoming more dependent on secular voters. For instance, in April 2018, members of Congress founded the Congressional Freethought Caucus to specifically focus on these voters’ needs and concerns.

Though atheists and agnostics are still a relatively small portion of the population, there’s strong evidence they will make their voices heard during the 2022 midterms – and help campaigns with funding and support at every stage, not just on Election Day. Whether Republicans can counter this level of engagement from specific religious groups will be a key question of the upcoming midterms.The Conversation

Ryan Burge is an Assistant Professor of Political Science at Eastern Illinois University. This article is republished from The Conversation under a Creative Commons license. Read the original article.

About the Author

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Comments

  1. For the sake of God –or Man…?

    Perhaps there is a Son of God,
    and then, perhaps, there isn’t.
    The teaching’s tricky nonetheless,
    so what might matter –doesn’t.

    For, picture ‘Void’ with no one there
    to witness It’s existence:
    A thousand times a void is void
    regardless of persistence.

    The Void would need a ‘mirror’ Void
    Reflecting Its own image
    It couldn’t just create Itself:
    It must evolve from scrimmage.

    Perhaps that’s just what Jesus meant
    by saying he’s son of Man
    while, same time, being the Son of God
    –they’re part of the same plan.

    Man some fine day may mirror God
    –a mutual raison d’être
    (unless we kill each other off
    and flashback into petra).

    But here and now, there’s Love, and Hate.
    There’s laughter, and there’s sorrow.
    We ‘pendulate’ between the two
    as if there’s no tomorrow.

    They both are part of ‘God-liness’
    (if all does stem from ‘God’).
    It’s when to use each ‘Yin’ or ‘Yang’:
    –the staff versus the rod

    The son of man can be a God
    –or he can be the Demon.
    The moral to the story lies
    somewhere twixt thought and semen.

    Allah, Yahweh, Buddha, God…
    it matters not the name
    It’s ultimately up to us
    to be –or take the blame…

    Religions that exist today
    are merely but a tip
    of iceberg-depths of deities
    in man’s religious trip.

    Rewards like what religions pledge
    are unsubstantiated.
    It’s what we do to save our world
    that’s always been what’s made it.

    Yet, for this pledge we die and kill,
    (and rape and burn and pillage).
    When will we learn that ‘Good’ and ‘Bad’
    are both within our ‘village’?

    Gods may exist, or maybe not.
    Our fate is with us mortals.
    The battle is right here on earth
    and not at heaven’s portals.

    We need to stop the overflow
    of births, and wars for profit,
    we have to do this by ourselves:
    –the gods won’t come to stop it.

    We must move toward free enterprise,
    not slavery and stagnation;
    free speech the right of every man
    –and woman!– in each nation.

    The Fundamental Principle:
    “Help Fellow Man” –should be;
    for, “God Almighty”, by that term,
    does not need help, you see…

    The purpose of our being here
    –if any purpose be:
    Play forward Love and channel Hate
    …no matter deity.

    –Q CARBONERO, Texas 2011

  2. SO, i DON’T GIVE TO THE PARTY THAT THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS SAYS I AM A PART OF – WHY? – BECAUSE . . I . . D O N ‘ T . . T R U S T . T H E M ! I give to the Lord and I have to be careful about who I give to in that realm too!

  3. The God question is easy. Believe in what is proven by real evidence. SMART people base their beliefs on FACTS and nothing else. Real evidence is testable, measurable, repeatable, and falsifiable. If your beliefs do not provide testable, falsifiable evidence, it is not rational to believe those things. Learning critical thinking skills will get you closer to the truth than faith every day of the week. Faith is not a reliable path to truth. I can have faith there are unicorns on the moon. That doesn’t make moon unicorns real. Look for real evidence.

  4. People that self-identify as religious typically least believe in God in my experience.

    Only someone that was absolutely certain that there was no God and no afterlife would spend their time judging people, being arrogant and prideful, flaunting wealth, and in general trying to oppress and control others.

    Every single religion claims God hates the prideful and arrogant, loves the poor, and hates the wealthy. They all say not to judge or oppress. They all claim you should help others, especially the less fortunate. But all we ever hear the religious do is scream insults at everyone else and try to hurt them in any way possible, either mentally, physically or otherwise removing their freedoms.

    Also the scripture/history indicates God abhors organized religion, the church or other organizations. And of course the church keeps getting caught for sexually abusing prepubescent boys, although plenty also rape girls. It’s just very dirty. No good human being would ever accept that.

  5. Heathen independent here, and i respect religion so long as religionists respect my non-participation. I was interested in christian science at one point and did attend parochial school for a half year and found myself in the company of good people, comma, as a non-believer i felt myself a hypocrite in their company. Did meet a cute girl in the school but that by itself just wasn’t enough. Religion is an institution and I just don’t feel like being institutionalized thanks. New age new era new knowledge science computers all that jazz and we need to be learning not reciting scripture and dogma, again those who keep faith have my blessing, but its not for me.

  6. lol. This article got posted on the Drudge Report. Just saying hello to biggest rubes in politics. No, your god doesn’t exist. It doesn’t matter how many times you repeat some ridiculous, circular argument about how “it’s the truth” based on some other self-referential article of faith. People believing in the unseen, unobserved, yet unassailable “truths”–whether it’s their cockamamie religion, flimsy conspiracy theories, or (usually) both–they are a plague on civilization.

  7. Jesus Christ loves everybody and came into this world to die for our sins. He rose from the dead to save all who want their sins forgiven and who are willing to repent of them. Nothing more needs to be said.

    1. Friend you are very close. But according to psalms God hates the sinner. He loved the world and gave his son for it but this speaks more of his kindness to all of mankind, offering a chance at forgiveness. If that offer is refused and one dies without Christ, then all that remains is the wrath of God. God finds the unrepentant sinner repulsive and an abomination. And yet, while in that state, He still chose to die for us, at our hand. Makes it even more amazing that He went through with it. These atheists confirm it every time they write the date of our Lord on their checks.

  8. Agnostic (and Republican / Libertarian) here. I do think the Evangelical wing of Christianity is ruining the Republican party. I think there are a lot of clear-eyed Republicans that have no interest in Trump v.2, but we’re in the minority compared with the Evangelicals and Southern Baptists that are slowly but surely destroying that party. I think the Republicans might actually appeal to more of the electorate if religion can be removed from that party. Lower taxes, less government interference, and no reduction in wars and telling other nations how they must operate (both parties are in lock-step in that regard)! I don’t care if my neighbors or co-workers had an abortion or are LGBTQ. It does not effect my life whatsoever. But I started to question Christianity when I became a father and thought what kind of God would send his child to die a miserable death on the cross as this one did with Jesus? It makes no rational sense. And once you question that central tenet of the faith it is not out of the realm of possibility that God is not actually omniscient or infallible and that a lot of things in the Bible should be up for serious questioning.

    1. I’m in agreement with you mostly, but I have hung in there a little bit and have been reading the bible myself. Much of Christianity, particularly Western Christianity, is irrational, and unspeakably cruel. If God is like that we’re all screwed. But don’t blame it on the bible, its not really in there. I think things started to go off the rails with Augustine, but maybe earlier. There’s some irony in the fact that the explicit mentions of eschatological judgement, which I take as parables not literal in any event, are over social justice. Take the sheeps and goats, what did the goats do (or more importantly not due). Nothing about theological positions there. Dives and Lazurus as well. And it doesn’t get any better with the OT prophets. They’ll make you a communist.

      So it would be ashamed if questioning that central tenet of the faith of what has become of Christianity, particularly modern Evangelical Christianity, leads to question the possibility of God.

    2. Keep the morality of the new testiment (and many other moral standards) and get rid of the magical thinking.

  9. Christianity: The belief that some cosmic Jewish Zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

  10. I do not deny you the right to be athiest or agnostic. Neither does God. So, in the name of rights as guaranteed by God AND our US Constitution, why do athiests and agnostics, all claiming that Christians and people’s of different faiths/religions, want to curtain our rights as dictated by God AND the US Constitution?

    1. Is that why God fearing Christian American Patriots torture prisoners of war? Because they are God fearing Christian American Patriots?

      Is that why they want to force 12 year olds to give birth to their rapists children?

      1. The history of Christianity and its turning a blind to or engaging in; violence and murder, child abuse, female subjugation, then preaching to the rest of us about some friggin fetus is laughable. I will excuse most of you, my guess is you have no knowledge of history beyond the edited highlights you were taught in school:
        -Pilgrams came to an all but empty country and helped the savages’ building roads and sky scrapers
        -American patriots in tri-corner hats fought back the British invaders, “One if by land, two if by sea”
        -The great freedom loving Americans fought a civil war to give ni663rs, er um, I mean black folks freedom
        -Won WW2 all by ourselves
        -Ronald Raygun beat the Russians somehow
        -Today

        This and given that most of you don’t read, its easy to see how you can pretend you are the defenders of innocent life and the true patriots, you’re wrong but like so many other things, you self-assuredness in your errors is the stuff of legend.

        1. Oh yes, make us guilty of the sins of our Fathers. Christians are human and fallible. Not making an excuse, just stating that plainly. There are many wrongs that have happened in the name of Christianity and religion for that matter, but those of us today disagree with what some in our past did.

          I have never believed in slavery, women subjugation, child abuse, violence, and murder. The irony here is you accuse folks of murder, yet take the life of a separate entity, who had its own DNA, and say is OK. An unborn child is NOT just a piece of tissue.

          The true irony is those who call names and make accusations are the ones usually guilty of the very things they say.

    2. A non-existent Sky Daddy didn’t give me or guarantee me any rights because HE DOESN’T FREAKING EXIST YOU FOOL.

    3. Which God are we talking about exactly; there have been about three thousand of them in recorded human history so I would like to be sure we are talking about the correct one?
      You see you are certain the other 2999 are ridiculous fairytales and that you and josh McDowell have the correct answer.

      So you see we think the same, I just take it one God further than you do…

    1. Ah, your invisible God of infinite love is going to send me to hell to burn for all eternity.

      Nothing says love like that. Well maybe giving terminal cancer to children.

      1. God doesn’t give anyone cancer. He doesn’t send you to hell, you make that choice. He has offered you a gift, but you reject it. One thing about Hell, that many people misunderstand is in the end, you will not be allowed in the presence of God and that is partially what hell is. I know, there are many who would refute me, but what I say is accurate, if not a complete story of what hell is. (There is more to it, yes.)

        Right now you see the beauty of creation around you, and yet fail to realize the truth.
        “For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.” Romans 1:20

        Your statement shows you don’t understand the nature of God.

        1. If your God doesn’t give a child cancer then who does? Is a newborn given a choice to be born without a brain or be born without skin or to be born with 12 legs and no arms or eyes, or no liver or lungs?

          Does fetus have a choice when it is flushed from a woman’s womb naturally, or when it dies with the woman due to an internal hemorage?

          “He doesn’t send you to hell, you make that choice.”

          According to the Catholic church, the body that invented your religion, there is no such place as hell.

          Why would God create a place of eternal torment? Why would he stand by and allow anyone to be tormented for the rest of eternity?

          He seems like a sick puppy to me. Just the kind of nonsense creation that a goat herder would imagine 4,000 years ago.

          And fools still fall for the same nonsense story 6,000 years later.

          You do realize don’t you that the main themes of the bible are taken from astrological texts. The cross is the zodiacal cross. The age of christ – is 2,000 years, because the Earth’s axis precess in a 24,000 year cycle and there are 12 zodical houses. meaning that the ecliptic spends 2,000 years in each house.

          The ecliptic over the last 2,000 years has been in the constellation pisces the fish, which is why Christ is associated with fish. Christ even tells one of his own that when his age is over – in 2,000 years, he will be gone and the person to follow will be a water carrier. Why is this? Because for the next 2,000 years, the ecliptic falls in the constellation Aquarius the water carrier.

          Christs halo, is the halo seen around the sun.
          Christs famed death and resurrection for 3 days refers to the fact that astronomers at the time could track the position of the sun but couldn’t do so precisely so when the sun is at it’s southern most point in fall, it seems to remain stationary in it’s north to south progression, a sign of death, for 3 days, and then on 4th day is seen as resuming a south to north direction – a sign of rebirth.

          Your Christian nonsense is nothing more than nonsense myth poorly papered on top of pagan astrology.

          That makes me laugh.

          1. Their hell of torment stems from a couple verses that evangelicals run wildly with to scare people into remaining in the church. The actual verses more likely refer to ghettos outside of cities at the time where burning trash was common.

            During most of Christianity reading the texts literally, especially stories of genesis etc. would have been considered strange. Americans can’t read poetry.

      2. Jesus Christ loves everybody and came into this world to die for our sins. He rose from the dead to save all who want their sins forgiven and who are willing to repent of them. Nothing more needs to be said.

        1. “Jesus Christ loves everybody and came into this world to die for our sins.”

          Hold on, Jesus Christ is God and so is the Holy Spirit, so He sent himself to Earth so that he could be killed and throush the spilling of his blood he could forgive humanity for it’s sins against himself.

          Your religion is pure nonsense.

          1. ALL religion is pure nonsense. Good for you for rejecting the lie concocted by organized religion, nothing you think you know about your Creator is true, so again good on you for rejecting it. BUT, that does not mean there is not real Truth that can be found, and communicated with… Y’shua is His name, the Word of Elohim, our Creator. Do not believe anything organized religion says, ask Him directly, as He told you to… Talk to Elohim, in the name of Y’shua, and if your heart is good, He WILL respond.

        2. except perhaps that jesus christ is a satanic lie. His name is Y’shua. That means YHWH’s Salvation. Shua is the hebrew word for salvation. jesus is a nasty lie concocted by the cult of roman catholicism to replace His name. How can you call on the name of the Lord if you DON’T KNOW the name of the Lord? and THAT is all that needs to be said… Y’shua did NOT come to die, He came to speak the Truth, and organized religion killed Him for doing so.

          1. You are right. Jebzuz is a lie and a shape shifting alien from planet Neta-luna who lives in the hollow core of the flat Earth.

            All hail Lord Zub Zub, the universal queen of the universal hollitakker.

    2. instead of asking josh clueless mcdowell, ask your phone “ok google, what is jesus’ REAL name?” No one who is unable/unwilling to speak His real name deserves to speak or be listened to about a single thing regarding the Creator and His Word. All you who capitalize the words satan and lucifer, but will not speak the names YHWH or Y’shua, are proclaiming to eternity who your daddy is… Master YHWH is my Elohim. Y’shua is my Messiah. So be it.

    1. I am strongly religious. But, if you are honest, you will acknowledge that not even you advocate “live and let live”. In a civil society, we are all bound by mores and social contracts (many written; others not). In a democracy (broadly speaking), we get to decide the mores and social contracts by which we are governed, and we all have an equal seat at the table. In the US, we have a Constitution that protects our God-given rights from democratic forces that would seek to undermine those rights. So, in the US, tell me which of those God-given rights the “strongly religious” in the US want to take away? You are erecting a boogeyman that is used to invoke fear and anger where neither is warranted.

      1. The “god given rights”, as you say, are inalienable rights that we have struggled hard to come to in the face of religion. What rights the “strongly religious” would take away you ask.

        a nice short list from the ACLU:

        Religiously affiliated schools firing women because they became pregnant while not married;
        Business owners refusing to provide insurance coverage for contraception for their employees;
        Graduate students, training to be social workers, refusing to counsel gay people;
        Pharmacies turning away women seeking to fill birth control prescriptions;
        Bridal salons, photo studios, and reception halls closing their doors to same-sex couples planning their weddings.

        The basic rights to live unhampered in society is the main issue. The right is pushing for anti-gay, anti-trans, anti free speech bills left and right. If you don’t see it, you are the problem.

        1. Right is right and wrong is wrong. The problem is that Christians have been giving in to the immoral, evil filth of opinions like yours instead of standing on Gods Holy Word and condemning evil people like you for way too long now. And Christians have tolerated such filthy, vile, homosexual foolishness for so long that that all you servants of the devil have come to expect such tolerance of your evil.

        2. Religious institutions – free exercise clause
          Business owners and contraception- no right to contraception
          Social workers – free exercise clause
          Pharmacist – free exercise clause
          All of the other stuff — free exercise clause

          In a democratic society, I am allowed to disagree with you, and I will not be bullied or shamed into agreeing with you (“you are the problem”). The freedom to practice religion in our society is protected by our Constitution, precisely for the reasons you cite — a tyrannical, all-powerful social mob (i.e. democracy) stripping away our right to peacefully live out our reasonable and traditional religious conscience.

      2. “But, if you are honest, you will acknowledge that not even you advocate “live and let live”. ”
        Please provide evidence the liberals do not advocate “live and let live”. Conservatives are forcing religion, forcing births and denying health policies that save lives. They are working on trashing atheism, other religions, gay rights, women’s rights, and denying trans kids help. They support an ex-POTUS who lied 30,000 times while in office and encouraged an insurrection. Looking forward to seeing your evidence of how the conservatives are “live and let living”.

        1. Provide evidence? How about all the cities they have burned, all the people that they have attacked for not agreeing with them politically at rallies, how about Maxine Waters calling (a Democrat) for people to harass any Conservative anyplace they can find them with their wives and children, putting them in danger, yeah, that’s all about ‘live and let live’. Let’s not talk for one second about some of the things that have been said by the women on ‘The View’ or some of the more radical comments on some of the MSM news shows, shall we?

        2. You like to read books (me too). You should try reading my post. I never said conservatives adhere to “live and let live”. I said the OP does not live by that. And if you are honest, you do not either, unless of course you are an anarchist.

    2. We let people make their own choices and live as they want. We do not celebrate sin. We do not celebrate sexual immorality. We do not celebrate abortion. Jesus said he was on earth to define for the world what is and what is not sin. Then God’s gift of free will allows every individual to decide if their soul is wheat or if it is chaff.

      1. Do you think people should be allowed to choose murder since we “let people make their own choices and live as they want”? Of course not! Yet, that is precisely why we are apposed to abortion. Your rights end when someone else’s life is at stake. An unborn child is (according to science) a distinct human life, guilty of no crime. As such, it deserves the same right to life, respect and dignity any innocent, distinct human life gets.

        Last I checked, there are no law enforcement activities against practicing sexual immorality. There is no serious effort to arrest homosexuals engaged in homosexual activity (yes, like anything, there are quacks advocating that nonsense, but it has zero traction). God knows there is certainly no effort to arrest heterosexuals practicing sexual immorality.

        Again, all of this is boogeyman scare tactics intended to inflame irrational fear and anger, and not infrequently, to raise campaign cash and panic voters into going to the polls.

        1. “An unborn child is (according to science) a distinct human life”

          Liar.. Liar.. Pants on fire…

          1. It is not a lie at all.

            Distinct — has its own DNA separate from the mother
            Human — again, DNA
            Life — the unborn child is alive, not dead (evidence is cell activity and growth)

            Each of those is a scientific fact. Not lying at all. Inconvenient for you, but not a lie.

      2. Amen, Allan. “WHOEVER will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.” (Rom. 10:13). Hurting? Depressed? Broken in spirit? No will to live? Call on the name of the Lord, Jesus

        1. It’s much easier to believe in fairy tales and falsehoods than it is to think, know and understand. Just ask the 40 million election deniers.

          1. Implied in your statement is that faith is the absence of reason, which is simply not true. Reason/thinking is limited by your brain, which is pretty limited regardless of your own self-perception. On what biological basis do you claim that the human brain is sufficient to accurately perceive reality? You assume that the human brain (even assuming a flawless global neural network of the sum total of human existence, past, present and future) is capable of accurately interpreting reality, much less understanding it. The arrogance in your assertion is breathtaking, actually. We’re pretty smart, but if the past is an indication of the future, our perspective on reality is likely going to fundamentally morph multiple times. Don’t limit reality to what YOU perceive. Be open to something bigger. I’m not afraid of what I don’t know. Are you?

        2. Lol. Your magical recipe for replacing one form of mental illness with another doesn’t seem to work.

          How could it?

          1. And every major advancement in human discovery has been preceded by a lack of proof, until there was proof. My only advice to you is, don’t be so sure about what you’re not sure about.

            “You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart.” – God

      3. Freewill is a lie of the humanists who say that they alone are the captain of their fate and the master of their destiny. Only Jesus Christ has the power to set someone free. They can’t do it themselves.

    3. The primary problem in the world is magical thinking. Believing that magical unseen things are working behind the scenes to do whatever.

      Ghosts, Gobblens, Angels, God, whatever.

      Once you can lie to yourself about the existance of those things, you can lie to yourself – and other’s about pretty much anything else.

      The faithful are not tied to reality, they can justify any stupid belief on faith, just as they justify their religion on faith.

      They have faith that a serial molester – accused child rapist, insurrectionist, thief, cheat, and congenital liar – Donald Trump – is the return of Christ.

      Nothing more needs to be said.

      1. It always strikes me, how an Athiest will make such a statement when in reality you don’t know what you don’t know. 150 years ago a walkie-talkie would be magic. Most of what we have today would be magic.

        “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” Arthur C Clarke

        The more I study and understand Quantum Mechanics, the stronger my belief in God.

        1. You act like it’s a given that given some given enough scientific and technological advancement we’re going to discover that bronze age, semi-nomadic sheepherders who didn’t know where the sun went at night were correct about the fundamental nature of the universe.

          That’s called a “stretch”. No, quantum mechanics doesn’t reveal anything about God. 1) I doubt you study it for real–watching YouTube videos doesn’t count, and 2) you’re obviously just seeing what you want to see. That’s not science. You’re just a tourist.

        2. “The more I study and understand Quantum Mechanics, the stronger my belief in God.”

          There is nothing particularly magical about quantum mechanics with one exception. Entanglement, and even that has a potential solution in the realization that the distance is defined by the amount of entanglement there is between two portions of the wave function.

          The more I know about quantum mechanics the more obvious it is that your invisible sky fairy is an invisible sky fairy.

      2. There’s nothing more “magical” than the Big Bang, which says everything comes from NOTHING! And what does “infinitely small” and “infinitely hot” mean? Which is part of the magical fantasy of the Big Bang.

        1. “There’s nothing more “magical” than the Big Bang, which says everything comes from NOTHING! ”

          The big bang theory – the standard cosmological model – says about the origin of the universe. Your interpretation is wrong.

          There is no before the beginning, which is another way of saying that you can only approach the beginning from one side. Specifically by projecting back in time.

          In reality time and space lose their meaning as one moves back in time near the singularity. So the very concept of a beginning loses it’s meaning.

          You have confused yourself.

    4. If you examine the comments to a thread such as this, you can begin to understand why humanity is so screwed up. Tens of thousands of years of human suffering, corruption, it appears life in reality has little meaning. Truth is most who claim to “have the answers” are playing a con game on everyone. Not a single human being can claim with 100% certainty they know the “truth” about what happens after we die. They claim they do, they claim it is truth, yet not a single shred of evidence. Just believe…but truth doesn’t need anyone to believe…it stands upon its own evidence, period. Religion cannot.

      Religion provides a path, using all the triggers the human mind needs to react and then submit to what religion is known for…fear and threats. The angry wrathful god narrative entered humanity when societies became too large to manage, in order to do so twisted men created a god that acted just like them. Submit or else mentality. They claim this deity was loving BUT, would torture those that refused to submit and agree with religious tyranny. Little has changed,. but the angry wrathful jealous gods narrative worked to this day. Fear is a tool used by religion, politics, and anyone that desire control over a person. Every excuse in the book has been created to relieve any liability for their gods, those include “free will”, devils, even blaming creation itself for the failures of their gods.

      IF someone claims to anyone that their god is “all knowing, all powerful, omniscient, knows the beginning form the end”, etc., then speaking from a legal standpoint, that makes their god complicit and an accessory to the condition of this bizarre world and realm. Foreknowledge of crimes against humanity, and choosing to do nothing but actually blaming its own creation is a serious con game. Blame all of humanity for the acts of two people? Con job. That is like accusing everyone that drives a car as being evil and worthy of death because once a drunk driver killed someone or disobeyed an order. Romans 8 tells a story no one pays any attention to…it was their god that ruined this realm, he made all creation subject to frailty and futility…yet few believers would admit to that. It is in their own bibles that their god subjected all its creation to futility. That makes their god an accessory. If we are told, that god is “love”, people should really think hard about what they follow and does love really give a blind eye to the injustices humanity has seen for so long? Of course it doesn’t…so the “god” presented by religion is another con game.

      Fear, threat and anger at anyone that “rejects” or refuses to submit to a god is not any form of love, it is actually religious tyranny that people adhere to. Treat each other decently, just as you desire to be treated…anything other than this basic principle of human interaction is noise and division. Be wary of anything that separates you from your fellow man…this includes divisive religions. If a religion can convince people to believe in absurdities, they can also convince them to commit atrocities…history proves this to be very accurate. So do not allow some commenters here to make you feel small or try to define you as “swine” because you do not follow their mind maze. They are toying with you in the name of their religion.

      They are not superior to you, in fact if you want a glimpse of a mans character, just pay attention to how they treat those they deem as their subordinates…actions speak louder than words…if they mistreat them, their words and their religion is worthless. They have nothing of value to share with anyone. If you do not agree with them, all they have is threat and that shows you how shallow their religion is. If ANYTHING uses fear and threats in order to try and convince you to follow it, know it is a con game, and run the other way. I am for freedom of religion, but also freedom FROM religion…I do not care if you worship toothpicks, just do not tell me I have to or else I will be sadistically tormented and punished “forever”…that alone should tell you the unjust manner of gods created by the minds of twisted men. Religion is a business…and a form of mass control over others based upon fear and threat…in order to convert and fleece those they con. If we are commanded to love…to do no harm to anyone…then the one who commanded us to live in this manner, yet does not follow its own rules…this entity is a con job…and we were all fooled, but due to fear and threat, few dare question, even though they know something is terribly wrong. All the best to you all, we’re in this circus together, and we will all expire. Maybe then humanity can catch a break from all the mental gymnastics used against it and get to experience some genuine peace…but no one knows…period. Don’t be fooled by their arrogance and self righteous attitudes…they are as lost as anyone else, seen by how angry some get if you question them. Just live your life, be good, compassionate, and a decent human being…if that is not good enough, then we are all most miserable.

      1. “Not a single human being can claim with 100% certainty they know the “truth” about what happens after we die” –

        When you die, you ceise to exist. There is nothing beyond, no existence, no consiousness. The patters that define you vanish and along with them you do as well.

        That is the truth of the matter no matter how much you want to fantasize about fictional bad story alternatives.

    5. There are intolerant folks of all kinds. However, consider the evidence. Christ lived and preached, was well known, but got arrested and publicly killed. A few days after he was buried, he was seen alive, not only by folks who knew him well but by some hundreds more. He interacted long enough to make detection of an impostor overwhelmingly likely, and his colleagues continued the rest of their lives telling what happened. They did not gain money or fame, had hard ends mostly, but went as far as India telling the news. All this started basically right after the resurrection. We got no tales of how this happened, just lots of folks who saw Christ alive after he had been killed. From a viewpoint in the XXI century you can choose to disbelieve this, but you can also rationally consider ts probable truth and follow the consequences. None of this needs or favors harming anyone. But those interested in what Christ said will have no difficulty I think in finding and reading a Bible.

      1. “Christ lived and preached”

        There is no physical evidence that Christ existed, although there are numerous claims of multiple grifters named Christ roaming around scamming people for money.

        1. cf Josephus (1st century Jewish historian)

          He has some references to the historical Jesus, although the full task of recording the life of Christ was taken up by his students. Josephus does record the imprisonment and death of John the Baptist (a “good man”), indicating that he had “influence”, potentially manifesting a “rebellion” against the Roman empire.

      2. There is literally no proof, outside the Bible, that Jesus existed or that any of these things happened. The Romans kept great records and he was never mentioned. In fact, there isn’t a single contemporary writing or historical record of Jesus’ existence while he was alive. Not one. If that doesn’t make you stop and think, nothing will.

      1. Stalen was a good Christian, and so was Hitler. Pol Pot was a Theravada Buddhist. Don’t know about Castro, but Americans love to Lie about Castro to justify their illegal blockaid of that tiny island.

        Castro really made America look like a fool on the world stage.

        That makes me laugh.

        1. Neither Stalin nor Hitler were “good” Christians. Scripture gives grave warnings about people who name the name of Christ, and yet their hearts are far from Him. Their actions betrayed their words.

          Curious, what lies do Americans tell about Castro? Are you saying there was not a Soviet effort to arm Cuba with missiles? That is why the blockade was justified. No one would have bothered Cuba if it were perched in the middle of the Black Sea. That fact that it was 90 miles from the USA is a completely different scenario that warranted US action.

    6. Ask your ‘smart’ phone “ok google, what is jesus’ REAL name?” Now you are at a good starting point to learn actual Truth. Amerikans are rejecting god because everything organized religion teaches is a lie, starting with His real name. YHWH is my Elohim, Y’shua is His Word, and having this firmly planted in my brain and soul allow me to communicate with my Father every day. And it IS two way communication. Also, Y’shua only taught us one time how to pray, and Who to pray to, and nothing in it sounds anything like satan’s lie about asking jesus (wrong name) to come into your heart and be lord and savior (wrong prayer). We are about out of time, perhaps it is time to actually call upon His REAL name… Shalom, in the name of Y’shua. mt253146 at protonmail dot com.

    7. Exactly. Religion and “God” are the lazy person’s way of avoiding self-examination, self-awareness, and self-knowlege. “I can harm other people in the name of God and it’s OK,” e.g. deny impoverished women the right to choose, but not provide the resources needed to ensure the child has a healthy and productive life; Spew vitriol and mockery at all peoples other than white, affluent, unevolved country clubbers; Fold for every donor on every issue critical to the survival of humanity and destroy the planet in the process; Turn the other way on decades of child molestation by the Catholic priesthood. All. In. The. Name. Of. God. Liars, deniers and hypocrites all.

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